My second tournament was the Battle for Stones River which runs a points value of 1863. My army did pretty well there as well up until round 4 when I got my face handed to me by a really good Null Zone based list, again my only loss for the day. I'll admit I made some mistakes in that game, mostly due to my inexperience fighting against Null Zone. My opponent capitalized and that cost me a great finish. Next time I'll need to be a bit more aggressive and strike that librarian as early as possible. As it was, I let him sit around and force me to reroll a ton of saves all game, and that eventually led to a cascade of death upon my terminators in the later rounds.
Overall the two tournaments showed that the core of my list is solid. Mobility played a much bigger impact in the BFSR tournament, and I think I've worked up what is probably going to be my favorite list for the next month. At least until I get my hands on some Grey Knights stuff. I'm making a few changes to the list to add in some better armor threats and increase my mobility. I am still keeping the solid gunline mostly in tact though.
I am moving towards 3 Storm Shields per Deathwing squad in an attempt to increase close combat durability. I have run Belial with both the storm shield and the lightning claws. Both are perfectly valid options. The TH/SS will be better for tackling monstrous creatures, but the lightning claws are a great deterrent vs standard infantry.
here is the updated list:
130 Belial
- Lightning Claws OR Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
290 Deathwing Command Squad
- 1 TH/SS/Cyclone
- 1 TH/SS/Standard Bearer
- 1 TH/SS/Apothecary
- 2 TH/SS
240 Deathwing Squad
- 1 Power Weapon & Storm Bolter
- 1 Chainfist & Storm Bolter
- 1 TH/SS/Cyclone
- 2 TH/SS
240 Deathwing Squad
- 1 Power Weapon & Storm Bolter
- 1 Chainfist & Storm Bolter
- 1 TH/SS/Cyclone
- 2 TH/SS
240 Deathwing Squad
- 1 Power Weapon & Storm Bolter
- 1 Chainfist & Storm Bolter
- 1 TH/SS/Cyclone
- 2 TH/SS
190 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- 1 Sergeant
- 1 Meltagun & Bolt Pistol
- 1 Meltagun & Chainsword
- 1 Multi-Melta Attack Bike
190 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- 1 Sergeant
- 1 Meltagun & Bolt Pistol
- 1 Meltagun & Chainsword
- 1 Multi-Melta Attack Bike
140 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- 1 Sergeant
- 1 Meltagun & Bolt Pistol
- 1 Meltagun & Chainsword
170 Devastator Squad
- 1 Sergeant w/ Bolt pistol & Chainsword
- 4 Missile Launchers
170 Devastator Squad
- 1 Sergeant w/ Bolt pistol & Chainsword
- 4 Missile Launchers
Total: 2000 points.
What we end up here is a list with a LOT more mobility and the ability to inflict significant more damage to enemy armor. We basically trade 4 lascannons and 2 missile launchers for 6 meltaguns and 2 multi-meltas. We get the perfect mix between traditional double-wing and the original Death Hammer's gunline.
We do lose some close combat potential because we dropped a terminator squad, but we also increase the durability of the remaining squads a little bit to compensate. Our extra bolter shots are moved into the bikes. We have a nice little bit of duality in those squads, and if the bikes run out of juicy targets for meltaguns, the bolters do good against standard infantry.
While we also lose a durable scoring unit, we gain two fast ones. While they are relatively flimsy, the attack bikes are always scoring units for DA. I'd say be a little more aggressive with the 3-man bike units and be only SLIGHTLY more cautious with the attack bikes.
As for the terminator squads... Chainfists aren't as necessary with the inclusion of meltaguns, but they are very nice for dealing with walkers. Making a model or two in each squad wield lightning claws is not a bad idea either. This slight shift in the army layout doesn't need as much emphasis on terminators keeping storm bolters around. I think at this point it comes down to personal preference.
Please give me some feedback on these changes. I really like the way this list is shaping up!
I guess one thing that I would say about it is why the power swords in your Termie squads? Sure it gets you a stormbolter but that tiny little thing doesn't seem like it will do much to most enemies.
ReplyDeleteHow have you been finding the survivability of the bikes? They always just seemed to fragile to me, but I guess 12 scouting bikes will make sure that they kill at least 3-5 tanks before they go.
Other than that, looks good!
The power weapons are basically just 'there'. Since I now have the bikes, the storm bolters aren't as necessary. You could feel free to swap up to lightning claws if you really wanted. I'm mainly keeping him different for wound allocation.
ReplyDeleteI like the option of storm bolter shots against hordes still though. It supplements the frag missiles nicely.
The bikes are indeed fragile, but here they are mainly a harassment and alpha strike unit. By utilizing proper reserves and/or outflanking they can survive long enough to do their job when you don't go first. Scouting lets them really direct the first turn pretty well if you do get to go first. Overall, I'm not worried too much if they explode, but they pack a decent punch.
Thanks for the comments!
Interesting list - how are the Dev's working out for you in this build?
ReplyDeleteWith the new FAQ out - I'm dusting off my good old DA - and this is similar to what I was looking at - but some subtle differences. I was looking at specializing the Termies more - either dedicated assaults (with cyclones) or dedicated shooty with Assault cannons. Also looking at running Sammael in his LR/speeder to make the ravenwing scoring as well.
Have you tried using the Ravenwing Scout moves and then Deathwing assault to be in the enemies face on turn 1? success or fail?
BTW - played at BFSR last weekend as well - was running one of the Space Wolf Logan Wing armies (20 termies, Logan, RP, couple small squads in RB's). Was a great tournament. If you are from Huntsville I probably know you? (this is Al Gleason from the Blade and Bolter group)
Hi Al. I'm not sure I know you personally, but i do know a few people from Blade and Bolter. You guys always bring a positive attitude and some good gaming skills. Always fun to face off against one of you! HAAWGS had 6 or 7 people at BFSR this year.
ReplyDeleteOnto some list analysis to relate to your questions:
Devastators are key here. Without them (or some land speeders), you simply cannot get the volume of suppression fire necessary to deal with lots of mech. That the unit is dual-role and can deal with infantry well is a huge bonus. I opted for Devastators over speeders due to how durable they are over the coarse of the game. They also give the opponent some harder target priority choices to make during the game.
I shied away from Sammael because of the immense cost. While he does make bikes scoring (and unlock the ability to mix bikes and speeders), the list will play very differently. In both cases, I feel the bikes are a bit too fragile to make them a big focus of the army, especially since they need to get inside assault range to be effective at killing tanks. By all means though, feel free to go double-wing with more bikes and speeders. that list will be faster and more aggressive, but should be pretty good as well.
Scouting Ravenwing for the terminator drop is something I don't use a whole lot of, but it is something that can be useful. I'd really only ever recommend it when going first, as this tactic revolves around putting some fragile elements very close to the enemy army. It works best when you are holding several terminator squads in reserve, and that means fewer things on the board. That makes things easier on your opponent in the first turn.
That's not to say I never take that tactic, I just didn't build the list with the intent to do that on a regular basis. The list is flexible enough to adapt to almost any mission, and the bikes work best as distractions and interference units than they do a delivery system.